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Talk:AMERICA/@comment-108.194.25.40-20151203101652/@comment-8217359-20151204125214
I suppose it comes down to interpretation. I can see where you're coming from, but having read the VNs myself, it's not really a point I can agree on. I never got the feeling that Japanese civilian government is corrupt, and given portreyal of people like Tama's dad. In fact, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of evidence to back Sagiri's accusations. Sure, they were complicit in what the UN was doing (and evacuation of people from Mt. Tengen was a very Stasi-like affair with people being basically kidnapped in the night by armed soldiers) they...don't actually seem to have done anything that would warrant a label of "corrupt". Neither do I see them as having done things that are any more stupid that what other Japanese would have done. I always though that the implications of "it would have been better if Shogun had more power" had less to do with position itself, and with the fact that it was Yuuhi, who does seem to be a fairly decent person. Now, I have to say that I disagree with the sentiment that any "good' noble character has to inherently support democracy or that they have to "abolish the system". A political system is a political system; none of them are inherently "good" or "bad" - not that such kind of thing actually exists in politics. Certainly, authoritarian systems lend themselves towards abusive situations, but we have been shown that in reality, democracies are just as prone to being irrational, opressive or xenophobic. Neither do I think Meiya's portreyal has anything to do with politics. Meiya herself keeps out of them, and were it not for the coup arc, I don't think it would even be brought up. I do agree that the game never really does present a solid counter to her views, but at the same time, I do think a lot of things about her are admirable, and she's certainly willing to step up when it counts. Especially when you consider that she could have easily used her association with Shogun to not fight and just hang out whenever. Tsukuyomi regularly argues that Meiya shouldn't be in Yokohama, but Meiya rebuffs her every time. I also think it's rather poignant that she and the rest of the cast are ultimately UN pilots and Japanese; if Muv-Luv was really meant to be a nationalistic piece, why wouldn't she be in the IJA then? For that matter, a lot of stuff Muv-Luv does would be considered outright insulting to nationalists. A woman as a Shogun? Righteous Nationalist Sagiri being ultimately a pawn that can't even control his own men? Americans that are not portreyed as Vicious Rape Monsters? The protagonists working for foreign power and a woman that openly mocks most of their principles? Regardless of how people feel about Sagiri, and what Yuuhi may or may not represent, all of these would be considered seriously grave insults to anyone who'd consider themselves a "true" Japanese patriot. That becomes even more obvious when you actually compare Muv-Luv with works that are nationalistic (Mahouka is the first that comes to mind, with its insulting portreyal of Chinese or "the only good American is Japanese American" shtick). I think a major point of Unlimited and Alternative is how different their world is in some respects, and "Imperial" Japan is part of that, and in many ways its perhaps meant to be controversial. A major point of Extra (which is a really integral part of the trilogy that most people overlook) is that its set in completely normal Japan, wacky hijinks aside. Had the Japan on the "other" side being portrayed similarly, then the impact of the transition wouldn't be as great. Likewise, Takeru's temporary return to "normal" verse in Alternative wouldn't be as jarring to him. I do agree however, that in the interest of fairness, Yuuhi perhaps should have been portreyed as more pragmatic, or that otherwise her more pragmatic retainers be given more spotlight. However, as a prospective writer myself, I vehemently disagree that there is a "right" way to create work, or that otherwise the work you create has to be reflective of your personal believes. It's a little naive, and a bit disingenous. Philip K. Dick wrote a story (The Man in High Castle) where Axis won the World War 2. Does this make him a fascists? For that matter, people have accused S.M Stirling (the author of The Domination of the Draka series) of sympathizing with his uber-Nazi creations, even after he explicitly made statements to the contrary. Muv-Luv may create a bit more multi-faceted portreyal of a fascist, Imperial Japan, but it's initial introduction is not treated as a good thing, and in many ways serves to underline just how bad "Alternative" verse is. The same goes for the continiued existence of the USSR in the same universe, which will get anyone from former satellite states (such as myself) shaking the head in terror. And while I know that side-stories aren't particularly relevant here, but for example, Total Eclipse was written by the same person who wrote Alternative, and it features many things that don't really fit into a "secretly far-right fetishist" mold. A protagonist which considers himself American, a multinational team of allies (including a Turk and a Nepalese), Soviets that aren't completely evil, a sympathetic Chinese character and so on. And the father of one stareotypical "NIPPON BANZAI" character turns out to be as far as possible from the ideal, and a lot of her character growth revolves around actually getting past her prejudices. It's may not always come across very well, but if Kouki really was the kind of closet right-wing nut people often take him for, would he really pen this kind of story? I mean, I can see where the people get the idea from, but I don't agree based on what I've seen in VNs. But that's just an opinion, and everyone has one.